Drkenthovindvsdrtrivers

2019-04-24-DrKentHovindVSDrTrivers.md

Wow thank you for the invitation mr. Glenn Airy and thank you mr. Hoban for taking time out from your divinities to share your latest thoughts with us I’m not here to defend the theory of evolution I’m here to present a little bit of the evidence that supports the theory it is supported by an overwhelming number of scientists contrary to what mr. Glenn Airy has already asserted now I’m going to talk on fossils and I’m going to talk on genetics I want to talk on fossils for the first 15 minutes because I believe they’re the key to this subject if there were no fossils at all I’m not sure we would be here today I’m sure that it would have taken Darwin a good bit longer to figure out a theory of evolution imagine that creatures happen to just vaporize when they died so they left no traces at all that’s just a property of life and we’re aware of it we know that we don’t expect fossils but still there’s an absence of evidence from the past that’s disturbing well that’s not the case creatures don’t vaporize when they died and they often leave imprints which get covered up and are maintained over long periods of time now you may not know or guess how many fossils have been discovered in the last 150 200 years but there are well over a hundred billion fossils that have been discovered there is one fossil field in which says it’s estimated this is 80 billion vertebrate fossils alone there are tens of millions of fossils that have been catalogued described dug up and deposited in museums and similar institutions around the world and they’ve been studied whatever else you want to say about evolution that haven’t been lazy they’ve been doing their work now what is this huge fossil record tell us it tells us several important things first of all it tells us that 99.9% of all species are extinct that is the fossil record largely consists of creatures that have that are not existing today that have no counterpart today but are different kinds of creatures dinosaurs for example okay so for every one species today there were a thousand that went extinct furthermore the fossil record you know I’m wondering if this thing is causing the feedback here okay there’s a little bit of kind of feedback loop here anyway if you look at the fossils they’re organized vertically with as we understand that the top layers being more recently deposited than the deeper layers and with some exceptions of course the general rule is that simpler more congruent and smaller species are located lower down in the fossil record by congruent I mean species that fall in between species that you would find today for example so you can go back and I’ll tell you about dating in a moment to about 150 million years ago and you find that mammals converge on a mammal-like reptile if you take all land vertebrates they converge to a fish that resembles a coelacanth the lobe-finned fish now the third thing that’s worth mentioning is it’s same pattern has found the world over again with exceptions but you can line up straighter in Australia you can line up strata in Europe you can line up straight in North America and you find similar sets of creatures as you go down similar levels now this pattern alone no other argumentation suggests that once evolution through time because you expect creatures to begin small simple and congruent you expect higher strata to be more recently deposited you expect creatures to become more complex over time to increase an average size over time and to diverge which is exactly what the fossil record shows now in addition we have a completely independent system for timing these fossils and this is dating that systems that’s been developed by a geologist based on chemistry and physics it has to do with the radioactive decay of unstable isotopes so for example carbon-14 is produced we know in the outer atmosphere it is taken up by living creatures but it decays however in the living creature it reaches a steady state because it’s continually taking in new carbon-14 and the steady states are well studied when it dies it no longer takes in any calcium 14 the calcium 14 in it just decays and it decays so far as we know at a steady rate calcium 14 is only good back to about 50,000 years it has a half-life of about 5500 years now at the other extreme you have potassium argon which has a half-life of about a billion years and is good for timing events from a hundred thousand years right on back to a billion more than a billion you have dozens of other chemical systems which have inner media timescales over which they work well and you have overlap among these systems and you can look to see whether you’re dating systems give you congruent results and they do indeed it is not true if you use carbon-14 and another method that’s also good for 50,000 years that you get divergent results you get congruent results so we have some confidence that were able to date these strata and we also show through the dating that the assumption that more higher-up deposits more recently deposited show less decay the system even works for tree rings there trees there are four or five thousand years old whose age can be counted by rings and by which you can check to see whether carbon-14 for example is working now at the time of Darwin there was a sufficient fossil record so that devout Christians who were also serious scientists had to imagine 20 separate creations followed by 19 obliteration ‘z the most recent creation being the one we’re living in in order to make it consistent with a simple minded reading of certain sections of the Bible after a while it becomes easier to imagine that God lets the world evolve than to put him or her to the work of continually creating and say whoops I got that slightly wrong destroy the whole thing start over you’d have to have tens of thousands of separate creations and one less obliteration to fit the data according to this theory now along comes this character and he says hey I can solve this what about the flood so he imagines that the flood miraculously killed off the earlier creatures apparently Noah violated instructions because he discriminated against dinosaurs and other creatures with nostrils didn’t allow him on the ark and somehow deposited these dead creatures in this highly organized pattern we see repeated the world over now this violates expectation if you see if you think about these dead creatures swirling around in this dreadful flood you’d expect heavier creatures to fall deeper for example you don’t the heaviest mammals are right at the top the dinosaurs are 150 million years old they’re not way down there at the bottom at say a half a billion so this view is on its face in just trying to describe the actual evidence we have on the existence of fossils but matters only get worse if you take this thing seriously and that’s what scientists do and they do calculations so they say okay you want to believe in this how hard does it have to rain in 40 days and 40 nights to fill this water up to the point where it can then explain all the fossils what has to rain about 11 feet an hour by comparison a 1 inch an hour is a heavy downfall one inch an hour for 24 hours causes Hills to give way but you’re talking about a rainfall that’s 2 inches a minute it’s a rainfall you’ve never seen and can’t even imagine you’d walk out and splash you’d be on the ground from that amount of water flowing down matters get only worse I didn’t know before preparing for this debate or whatever it is that well what it rains heat is released and someone sat down and then the calculation well if you have this monstrous level of rain occurring you have an enormous release of heat and the calculation is that the resulting water is roughly between two and six thousand degrees a boiling cauldron of water produced by this vision of noah’s flood killing off marine fish freshwater fish all kinds of vegetation beneath and so on and yet somehow magically 6,000 years ago the water all managed to evaporate back down to our Placid level of existence right now now there are big absurdities and they’re small ones a small absurdity has to do with fossil footprints I’ve seen hominid fossil footprints and all of our gorge dated 3 million years ago look human but they’re smaller I’ve seen dinosaur footprints I’ve seen bird footprints how on earth are all these creatures able to leave footprints with this mass of rain coming down scouring whole Hills down to nothing but magically leaving the fossil footprints then you’ve got other problems the fossil records show that recent creatures in the fossil record just below the top are located where the current ones are so you find marsupial fossils in Australia now how do you assemble these creatures Noah sends word I need two lions from the Serengeti male and female I need to kinda Rouge from Australia and don’t exhaust yourself on the trip here by the way because you’ve got a hell of a trip back you’re going to be walking on mud hundreds of feet deep just to get back to where you belong and matters are worse still what about disease almost all human diseases have to live inside humans there are some like malaria that have a mosquito intermediate host but the rest go just human to human so those ten humans on Noah’s Ark have got to have between them all the human diseases of course if you’ve got a creative mind and unconstrained by reality you can invent an ad hoc hypothesis for that out how the disease’s came from other creatures but they left no remnants back in those other creatures our diseases do not resemble close to the diseases of other creatures and the same argument that applies to us applies to every one of the other species on the ark - in other words when they call for two lions from the Serengeti they saying be sure one is bringing half of all lion diseases and the others bring in the other half sick unto death they have to be to maintain biological diversity of diseases so to summarize with we’re being asked to replace a coherent logical story based on millions pieces of evidence carefully analyzed and organized and and are offered instead a fanciful tale with a dreadful view of God’s world a cataclysmic world a disaster of unimaginable proportions which nevertheless had the magical power to splat produce a fossil record that imitated what you’d expect if evolution took place I thank you [Applause] all right well thank you it’s an honor to be here and I appreciate dr. Traverse coming it is extremely difficult to find professors willing to defend the evolution theory and turn down over 3,000 times this has just had a few debates I’m just a simple high school science teacher that is sick and tired of the kids being lied to in their textbooks so we’ll cover all the points that you made as time permits see if I forget what bring it up during the question answer session okay let’s see let me present the creation viewpoint clearly and succinctly so people say you don’t have a because don’t have a model that you offer yes we do it’s very simple God created everything about six thousand years ago in six literal 24-hour days this is the only possible way that I can see to explain what are called symbiosis relationships where thousands of animals require certain plants or certain plants require certain animals for instance in the termites gut there’s a little critter that lives in there that cannot live outside the termite the term a termite cannot live without that little critter in there which one evolve first and how did it live for millions of years without the other one that is only one of literally billions of examples that can be found in nature that are best explained by a simultaneous creation just in a few short days then I believed there was a worldwide flood about forty four hundred years ago that completely destroyed this planet I think that’s the only logical way to explain the fossils there’s a phenomenon that come takes place during floods called a cavitation and another one called a liquefaction when getting it more that later um if you shake up a jar of dirt with water and it’ll automatically settle into layers for you and it’s interesting during a liquefaction when if you go out to the beach like I live in Florida six miles from the beach if you go stand knee-deep in the water as the waves come by the high part of the wave is lower is is higher and heavier than the low part of the wave this presses down on the sand and then when the low part comes by it relieves the pressure and if you go underwater with goggles you can actually see the sand grains hopping up off the bottom and particles are automatically sorted based upon their density just by the pressure of the waves coming past during Noah’s Flood you’d get a liquefaction problem that would be incredible because you’d have no no continents to restrict the tides and the tides would be probably a 200-foot tidal change during Noah’s Flood explaining the sorting of the fossil record reptiles are found in a similar layer reptiles have similar body density there’s a lot of reasons we’ll get into more that later so the Bible view teaches that before the flood came the people lived to be 900 years old there are thousands of legends from around the world of cultures talking about what they called the Golden Age when people used to live to be a thousand I mean the Greeks talked about it the Babylonians the Sumerians and the Bible certainly says Adam was 930 when he died and everybody before the flood lived over 900 years reptiles never stopped growing and as well as squids and most octopus and stuff like that they simply never stopped growing so I believe before the flood came the reptiles grew to be huge and dinosaurs were big lizards that lived with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden just giant lizards and then Noah took him on the ark probably babies he was smart enough to figure out just bring two babies be sure to get a pink one and a blue one though and so that’s the Bible view the dinosaurs were called dragons the most of history since the word dinosaur wasn’t invented till 1841 and people throughout the last six thousand years have killed nearly all of them there may be a few stragglers still around there certainly been a lot of sightings of various creatures that’s the study of cryptozoology there’s a couple pictures of ones that washed up on the beach in California in 1925 on my website if you care to go there so science means knowledge to know it is systemized knowledge derived from observation and study there is no observation that tells us a dog ever came from an on dog now if you’d like to believe that that’s perfectly fine but that is not science evolution whatever it is is not science it is a religious worldview that people choose to believe in and that’s perfectly fine you can believe whatever you want but I for one am sick and tired of them takin our tax dollars to teach this religion in our school system that’s my take on it [Applause] I am I’m certainly not against science I like science I like it very much as a matter of fact we have a science center a hands-on activity center we have a museum we have all kinds of activities for kids we actually like science I don’t know any Christians that don’t like science there may be some but I don’t know them I like science but I’m sick of the kids getting allied too now Texas has a law that requires the textbooks to be accurate so does Florida so does Wisconsin so does Alabama so does California most states require textbooks to be accurate all I want is accuracy in the textbooks all of the evidence that’s used to support the evolution theory has been proven fraudulent and I’ll take any bit of evidence you want we’ll show you which one it is they use all sorts at about 50 different things they don’t have time in 15 minutes obviously but this fellow says evolution is a fact this is called a mantra you say it over and over and over I’m pretty soon you start believing it he says the evidence for evolution comes from the fossil record the fossil record provides some of the strongest evidence that species evolved over time I would like to point out if evolution were on trial in a court of law absolutely no fossils would count because you can’t prove those bones had any kids you sure can’t prove they had different kids and why on earth would you think a bone you found in the dirt can do something animals today cannot do which is produce something other than their kind by the way there is no fossil record you don’t look back in the fossil record you look at fossils you put an interpretation on them but they don’t come with a date on them and they don’t come with a card saying this was minnow made by a dinosaur 80 million years ago so that when somebody says we looked back in the fossil record on either look back and then you dig up a fossil and it’s 2003 okay you’re putting your interpretation on that bone but you don’t know for sure when that thing lived the word evolution has six different totally unrelated meanings first they would have to be cosmic evolution this is a major obstacle the evolutionist have to overcome you have to have somehow the beginning of time space and matter the Bible answers that in ten words in the beginning God created the heaven in the earth then you have to have chemical evolution I’ve never had an evolutionist tackle this one I wish they would because if the Big Bang Theory is true the Big Bang made hydrogen and possibly some helium well how did we get 92 elements plus the synthetic ones I know you confuse them in stars but then you got to get you can’t get past an iron with fusion so you got a real problem here and then we’d have to have stellar evolution stars would have to evolve nobody’s ever seen a star farm they’ve seen a couple of spots get brighter and they accept oh wow star forming you don’t know what stars for me it could be the dust is clearing there’s a star behind it there’s no proof any stars ever formed out there in space that we’ve seen form but we see them blow up all the time they’re called Nova’s or supernovas that’s the opposite of evolution it’s backwards there’s enough stars out there that everybody can own two trillion of them to yourself I mean it’s not like there’s a lack of stars to go around those are just those are the ones we know about we don’t know about the ones that we don’t know about then we’d have to have what’s called organic evolution somehow somewhere long ago and far away life has to get started from nonliving material the evolutionist is left with a very embarrassing position in believing something that’s been proven wrong for over 100 years he still believes in spontaneous generation life had to get started from nonliving material I don’t I don’t hear about all the experiments you say well it might have happened or we might be able to do it someday it’s back to the matter is it’s a religious belief you have to believe that it happened and you’re welcome to keep that belief I don’t care what you believe but don’t call it science and don’t make everybody else learn that junk you keep it at home or start your own private school and teach evolution anybody that wants to pay and come learn it okay then we have what’s called macro evolution where as an animal changes from one kind to another nobody has ever seen a dog produce an on dog never Sciences things we can observe and test and demonstrate all of human history shows us dogs produced dogs period micro evolution I think is a lousy word and we shouldn’t use it but they do so I’m gonna explain what it means it actually means just a variation within the kind variation certainly happens sometimes some real bizarre variations happen but they’re still the same kind the first five meanings of the word are purely religious what happens though students are given one definition of this word evolution and then they switch the definition on them called bait-and-switch according the Big Bang Theory eighteen to twenty billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense very hot region that may have been much smaller than a period on this page man s one crowded dot for some unknown reason this region exploded it’s called the Big Bang they cut down a tree to print that where is Al Gore when you need him that’s what I wanna know yeah this textbook says 4.6 billion years ago the earth cooled and Iraqis in formed a rocky crust yes boys and girls the planet Earth cold and a rocky surface was created and then as the earth formed the surface was similar to the moon it was hot and there were large pools of bubbling lava oceans formed as it rained on the rocks for millions a year yes millions of years of torrential rains created great oceans and swirling in the waters of the oceans is a bubbling broth of complex chemicals progress from a complex chemical soup to a living organism is very slow well I guess it is doesn’t even happen that’s how slow it is this college textbook says the first self-replicating systems must have emerged in this organic soup so I think a fair representation of the evolution theory would be 20 billion years ago there was a big bang some safe 16 15 whatever the number you pick it okay and then 4.6 billion years ago the earth formed and it rained on the rocks for millions of years and turn them into soup and the soup came alive somewhere around 3 to 3.8 billion years ago and this first life form found somebody to marry there’s a good trick and something to eat of course and slowly evolved into everything we see today so great great great great great great great great grandpa what’s ooh [Applause] I uh spoke at a college in Boston one time and they said you I can speak to the college if their professors can ask me any questions they want because they wanted to show the students how dumb the Christians really were I said I would be honored to come for that and so I got my charts out and told them what I believed you know six thousand years ago God made everything 4,400 years ago big flood and then I told him what they believe you know 20 billion years ago Big Bang 4.6 million years on earth cooled down etcetera etcetera and we all came from soup one professor said joven he said there are two to three hundred varieties of dogs in the world today do you mean to tell me that all those dogs came from two dogs on Noah’s Ark you expect me to believe that I said sir would you look at what you’re teaching your students you’re teaching your students that all the dogs in the world came from a rock now I spoke of one University and afterwards this lady came up to me and boy she was angry she said tonight you said we believe we came from Iraq we do not believe that I said ma’am calm down you’re gonna blow a gasket here man I said ma’am do you believe in evolution she said yes I do I’m a professor here at the University I said okay then where did we come from she said we came from a macromolecule I said in where did that come from she said from the oceans from the prebiotic soup I said in where did that come from she said well it rained on the rocks from millions of years it was so cool you can see we’re slowly dawning on her I do believe if I come from a rock don’t I yeah you certainly do okay and you so that’s what their theory teaches 20 million years ago a big bang count cosmic chemical and stellar evolution would have to take place in the first you know X number of billion years and then we’d have to have organic evolution somewhere some how long ago and far away life had to start from nonliving material this has been proven wrong for years francisco redi Louie Pasteur come on you guys are in the 14th century if you believe that and then you’d have to have Mac revolution what animal changes to a different kind of animal and finally the only one that is scientific is what we call micro or simply variations that one is science the first five are religious going just from micro to macro would take a giant leap of faith and logic okay that’s a fantasy based upon imagination you got the other four stages too by the way this textbook says evolution has changed over time now watch how they change the definition on the kids evolution in other words there is no doubt that living things have changed over time oh now they jump down to living things what happened to the first floor you’re just gonna skip them and assume that they’re part of science they really much want this very much want to skip them then they say evolution can be defined as a change in species over time well now they’re down to what I believe in I believe species can change but I believe the changes are limited see this is a lie folks that’s not really what they mean by evolution they want to suck the kids into believing in evolution by showing them an example of a little variation and then say see that proves the whole theory oh it does not doesn’t prove a thing it proves dogs produce dogs sometimes big sometimes a little bit dogs all the evidence they give for evolution has been proven wrong years ago here’s a textbook evidence from fossils that’s sheer baloney no fossil counts you don’t know that that bone had any kids try that in a court of law on a freshman lawsuit they’ll tear you apart on that one okay evidence from structure molecular biology evidence from development everything they do is been proven wrong there’s no scientific evidence to support this theory except things that have been proven wrong years ago now if real evidence for the theory exists and please show me but don’t keep spreading lies as if you’ve got some evidence for your theory there isn’t any evolutions based on two faulty assumptions number one they assume mutations will make something new and better that’s never been observed secondly they assume natural selection makes it survive see an order for evolution to work one animal has to evolve a little better than the rest now what must happen to the rest of them to make this work they gotta die evolutions a religion of death not a religion of life according to evolution death brought man into the world according to the Bible man brought death into the world totally opposite somebody’s wrong folks seriously wrong this textbook talks about mutations and it says mutations are the original source of variation in populations I agree probably all the roses in the world today had a common ancestor rose mutations do not produce evolution nearly all scientists agree with that they just simply don’t produce evolution here’s a mutated Bulls got five legs there’s no new information added here’s a short sheep short legged sheet that’s a mutant no new information is added he lost some information and he’s the first one the wolf is gonna catch there’s a two-headed turtle that’s mutant it’s not ninja but it’s mutant okay now he’s gonna freeze first winter nobody makes a double neck turtleneck sweater hmm okay scrambling up letters from the word Christmas we’ll get you all sorts of different words but you will never get Xerox out of Christmas the letters aren’t available and scrambling up an existing gene code which is what a mutation does does not give you some new improved information it doesn’t do it this textbook shows the kids a four wing fly and it says normal fruit flies have two wings this mutant has four and by the way it cannot fly it says this rare mutation like most mutations is harmful now watch this beneficial mutations are the raw material for natural selection well excuse me why didn’t they show us a beneficial mutation why did they show us a bad one and tell us about the good ones show me a good one there’s never been one one professor said oh there’s a good mutation people in Africa they get sickle cell anemia cannot get malaria I saw that’s brilliant sir that’s like saying if you cut off your legs you can’t get athlete’s foot you know that’s just brilliant they tell the kids evolution and natural selection go together this one says evolution natural selection causes evolution oh come on natural selection selects it doesn’t create anything there’s the world’s smallest horse pretty tiny useless doesn’t bark I mean what good is it you know natural selection does not create how people got this crazy idea that natural selection is a creative force I don’t know but it’s not it doesn’t create a thing it just simply selects it’s a quality control and if we had time we’d get a lot more that quality control does not change the car to an airplane if you select all the bad cars okay everything in nature was designed and if you don’t like that I’m sorry but there is a designer and we’re gonna all stand before him one of these days maybe pretty soon thank you so much [Applause] before I turn to genetics I want to make a few comments on what we’ve just heard here and the level of honesty of the person making these comments because this is someone who feels free to call other people liars and to use the word lie about a whole set of people and a whole set of activities yet he’s has some vulnerability on exactly that subject let’s just deal with trivia first of all symbiosis requires simultaneous creation that’s nonsense we have many numerous studies of symbiosis beginning and in some cases symbiosis breaking down and you don’t have to imagine simultaneously everything’s in place in order to get it to evolve that’s an elementary error that’s been around in some forms for over a hundred years he claims that evolutionary theory is not science but is religion because science he says is derived from observation and study and since you can’t actually observe a fossil change into a different fossil then therefore your discussions on what you assume happened is religious that’s nonsense again there are all kinds of observations you make and studies you make that lead to inferences and conclusions from which you can derive a given result so that’s fatuous that we’re talking about opposing religious schools now regarding his infatuation with a terminal liar I urge on you two websites that you can go to if you want a deeper knowledge of this one is WW talk origins org and that’ll deal with very detailed reputations of the bizarre story he’s peddling about how this universe came about there is one that may appeal to some of you in this audience even more it’s called answer in Genesis org it is an explicitly Christian website but it has a subsection called arguments creationists should not use and this is devoted to arguments that this character has used in the past and that are recognized as being dishonest in content and almost certainly dishonest in intent including various kinds of lies he’s told about Darwin’s deathbed conversion about thomas henry huxley talking about free sex a basking shark found off of japan really being a plesiosaur and so forth and so on I don’t have the time to deal with this kind of trivia but I urge you if you’ve got an interest in a slightly more mature Christian creationist approach to check Answers in Genesis or if you’re interested in the evidence more broadly to check talk origins cord has been proven fraudulent everything has been disproven nonsense this is spontaneous generation he claims again nonsense spontaneous generation was a notion that you could get a frog appearing out of nowhere mutations never make things better now that’s a lie we have many examples of mutations that are beneficial including for that matter the mutation that in here is I guess form that’s where you have one of them and you don’t have the other provides you with protection from malaria a mutation that is disproportionately present in African American people derived from an area that was high in malaria and then he repeats an old old canard natural selection does not create it only destroys it only selects natural selection is a continual Selective process but it moves the frequency distribution of genes beyond the distribution that existed when it started and it create brand new creations relatively quickly that have never existed before it’s elementary now let me go back to talking about genetics for a second because this is a second kind of another kind of problem you get into when you just invent something out of whole cloth and imagine that it’s gonna fly if you’ve got an ark full of two of each kind and only maybe ten human beings we know for sure they’re gonna have to practice inbreeding for a number of generations because you only got two individuals let’s hope it’s male and female the offspring have got to breed among themselves the grandchildren have got to breathe among themselves the great-grand offspring have got to breathe among themselves because there ain’t any other individuals around we know and it’s an elementary calculation that takes about seven generations to wipe out all genetic variability now this level of inbreeding imposed on all organic or organisms has destroyed its destructive in the way he moans and groans about natural selection it destroys genetic variability and it destroys knowledge now 6,000 years ago this all happened according to him that’s about 200 generations since then we have plenty of good observations through study that in humans you accrue roughly a new mutation per generation so each of you in here can be happy that you’re a mutant to some fair probability now if you allow 200 generations then we can allow the accumulation of 200 new mutations during that period of time that would lead to 40,000 of your genes only 200 of them would show variability due to a new mutation in fact out of our 40,000 genes 4,000 of show genetic variability how can you generate this consistent with his hypothesis well again you’d have to invent some ad hoc hypothesis you’d have to say well for reasons unknown to us and without any evidence for it whatsoever and inconsistent with everything we know about current life there was our reign of mutations that struck not just humans but struck all other creatures as well and then you think oh well I’ve gotten myself out of that yes I’ve got to imagine another absurdity but fine I’m out of the immediate mind but it ain’t that easy because if the individuals are accruing mutations rapidly over this short period of time they all trace back to the ancestral group 6,000 years ago so as we like to say everything comes back as spokes on a wheel instead of trees where some individuals are more related to others and some groups are more related to others some share more variance with some individuals than others if you apply this to well there’s a worse problem still which I’ll go over in two minutes time I don’t want to introduce too much science into this revival meeting but I want to introduce a little bit the genetic the genetic code is redundant that is there are some codes that code for the same amino acids so you can get a mutation from one code there to the other still produces the same protein still the identical same individual we we don’t think natural selection acts on those genes or acts extremely weakly because it produces the same individual now those change over time due to random processes and these have been studied in some depth in the lab and they fit logic and they start to devolve diverge from each other solely because of random factors some individuals breathe some don’t and so some variants which are coding for the same thing become more frequent and others less frequent they’ve all by a random walk well the interesting thing about random walks is that they tell time because the longer the time for the walk the further apart to originally identical molecules are going to become at these synonymous sites now two things can be concluded from a world of data on these synonymous sites first of all they provide a congruent system of dating which is congruent with the strata and the phylogeny that’s a very curious fact that didn’t get explained by his fantasy about sorting by size during the flood how is it that individuals that are further down show greater divergence due to random walk at these synonymous sites and the second thing that’s interesting about these data is if you are given an anchor point that is one point in time in the past whose actual time you know not relative time but like it’s you dated from the methods I was telling you g illogical clocks you say it’s 200 million years then you can use all of the data on synonymous sites since then to give exact times to the splits of other species and you can check them both against the geological record and against the timing and once again it’s congruent I’m thinking of forming an organization called race for Jesus that’s right for Jesus study or understand I’m willing to make a fraudulent challenge my quarter-million dollar challenge I’m willing to make just flat assertions about what’s known or what is it known in a vast scientific enterprise that’s occupied the serious attention of serious people over hundreds of thousands of them up to a million scientists working on this over the years and I hope mr. Hoeven will be honorary president of the organization that maybe I can find a role in it for mr. Guarnieri as well I just want to end by saying that one of the most disturbing aspects of this and had a sense of the orientation of many of you is that I regard the religion that’s being pushed as being almost as bad as the anti science I think he’s giving you a double bad deal he ain’t giving you no science and he’s misrepresenting that and the religion he’s selling you to me is infantile it’s arrogant and blasphemous to tell God how creation occurred how God created this earth [Applause] and reducing God to an anthropocentric midget that the the organism that created this beautiful universe is just this trivial creature running things for the benefit of humans and a particular group of humans right now I think it’s pathetic jesus warned against those who would come in his name as false prophets who would who would come crying in his name and he and he said beware of them judge them by their fruits he said and what are the fruits of this man’s work misrepresentation lies and an absurd fantasy of a flood based on a hellish vision of what the creator is really like thank you [Applause] all right thank you sir well I stick by my guns I’ll try to answer as many questions to the Canada moment but the evidence that is used to support the evolution theory is indeed lies and has been proven wrong for example your textbook will tell you that the appendix is vestigial you don’t need it anymore that’s alive and proven wrong years ago the appendix is part of your immune system if your appendix is taken out you can still live there’s no question about that you can live without both your legs and both your arms and both your eyes also it doesn’t prove you don’t need it the appendix look at the wrong remote here’s the problem the appendix is part of the immune system anybody studies biology or anatomy should understand that say there we go you take your appendix out you got a better chance of getting quite a few diseases sometimes that’s the best option but the appendix is not vestigial that should not be used as evidence for evolution this textbook says the whale has a vestigial pelvis many organisms retain traces of their evolutionary history for example the whale retains pelvic and leg bones as useless vestiges the National Center for Science education in Berkeley as little storefront building says that Bosse evolved a blowhole this is how whales evolved according to the National Center who’s whose whole purpose is to keep creation out of schools to defend the teaching of evolution against sectarian attack this was started by Andrew Carnegie with a grant because he loved the evolution theory and gave a bunch of money to support the evolution theory in schools this textbook again says the whale has a pelvis right here the whales have a pelvis vestigial pelvis that served no purpose whales have hind limb bones that have no function this textbook says just imagine whales walking around it’s true these are the bones they’re talking about right there these little bones are supposed to let us imagine that the whale used to walk around now this one says the whale hasn’t barrel pelvis has no apparent function the whales pelvis is evidence of its evolution from four-legged land dwelling this is simply a lie those bones are part of the whales reproductive system the male and female bones have whales have different bones their whales are pretty big and that’s part of the reproductive system it has nothing to do with walking on land and never did okay here’s a 15 and a half foot Python snakeskin I have in my museum you can see if you look down near the anterior and it has little tiny claws right there one here and one here attached to a little tiny bone that goes up inside the snake’s body now the textbook says rudimentary hind legs of a python snake are supposed to be evidence for evolution those are not rudimentary hind legs those are used in mating the snake can’t talk he can’t say scoot over honey and it didn’t have any arms okay this has nothing to do with the snake walking on land they’re so desperate for evidence for evolution that this becomes evidence for evolution and it’s not don’t tell that to the kids this one says humans have a tailbone that is of no apparent use and this is part of the evidence for evolution the vestigial tail bone in humans is homologous to the functional tail in other primates with us vestigial structures can be viewed as evidence for evolution I tell people look if you think the tailbone is vestigial I will pay to have yours removed there are nine little muscles that attach to the tail bone without which you cannot perform some valuable functions I won’t tell you what they all are but trust me you need that tail bone this guy says the coccyx at the small bone at the human end of human vertebral column it has no present function and it’s thought to be remainder bones at once occupied this long tail of a tree living ancestor that is simply a lie folks it is not true why they why how the kids teach their teachers to teach that stuff I don’t know let me get to a few of the what happened here oh here we go a few of the rebuttal thing here let’s see Oh went too far here we go no wrong one there some points me he said evolution is supported by an overwhelming number of scientists the majority opinion means nothing in any argument okay the majority pin you can think the world’s flat and can think that you know if you take your blood how’d you get better in the majority for 2,000 years thought big rocks fall faster than other rocks and it’s not true they thought the planets go around the earth and that’s not true fossils are the key subject does a huge number of fossils have been found I agree but none proving evolution fossils exist in the press you can put an interpretation on them if you want which is what happens with the evolution theory 99% of the species are extinct I don’t know if that figures correct or not that depends on how you want look at it but still that’s the opposite of evolution extinction is the opposite of what you need you need lots of new ones coming on they’re not organized by the way clearly like as we see later similar simpler creatures are lower in the fossil record that’s simply not true all sorts of animals are found in all sorts of layers okay there’s quite a mixing of the fossil record carbon dating is good for 50,000 years carbon dating is fatally flawed we cover that for an hour on video number seven he said some of the people in Darwin’s time said there were 20 separate creations Darwin did indeed properly argue against a false teaching that was going around in his day I don’t teach that this is a straw man okay I don’t know any chrétien at creation is today that teach that there were some people in Darwin’s time who said if there are 20 kinds of birds then God must have made twenty kinds of birds twenty kinds of finches or fourteen whatever it was Darwin was correct to refute try to refute that particular false teaching but nobody today’s talk nobody’s taught that for over a hundred years so to bring this up now is a straw man okay it’s not being taught I don’t I never have taught that didn’t know allowed no he said no I did not allow dinosaurs in the ark he discriminated against him that’s not true I said earlier no it did have dinosaurs on the ark I believe it took reptiles dinosaur means terrible lizards what the word means how much rain to cover the world to take it 11 inches per hour this is another straw man argument he’s assuming that all the rain comes from that all the water comes from rain number one the Bible doesn’t say that it says the Fountains of the deep broke open most of the water came from inside the earth secondly you don’t have to cover Mount Everest Mount Everest wasn’t there Bible says in Psalm 104 after the flood the mountains arose the valley sank down in the water rushed off I don’t know how much rain there was but it didn’t have to get it since he set up a whole straw man and say well take 11 inches per hour and that would produce x-number thousand calories and all that kind of stuff the two to six thousand degrees and would cook everything this is setting up a straw man and it’s hacking it I don’t know anybody that says that and in the creationist viewpoint most of the water came from inside when the Fountains of the deep broke open and that’s why we have all the fault lines today the earth is busted up into plates he said he’s looked at fossil footprints that are three-and-a-half million years old they’re like ours but they’re smaller well if you find put footprints that are like ours what should you conclude human walk there may be a lot of people studied those footprints in late Olli and said well if we didn’t know they were so old we think we think a human walked here one professor studied he studied 70 people that go barefoot all their life in some village out in Africa someplace they never wear shoes ever and he said their footprints that they make are exactly like the ones in late Olli okay well you found some footprints fossilized in the ash they’re assuming they’re three and a half million years old that’s baloney they’re not three and a half million years old nothing is he said marsupial creatures are found in Australia I agree marsupials tend to be less aggressive I’ve been to Australia you can walk up to the koalas and you know pick them up and they’re cuddling to some extent I think after the flood was over when the animals got off the ark the less aggressive ones would continually be driven to the fringe by the more aggressive ones and then as the water slowly came up as the ice caps melted I believe the ice caps probably lasted 200 years after the flood if the if there was ice caps clear down to Kansas City Missouri the oceans would be lower by a few hundred feet and now you can actually walk any place in the world their underwater land bridges everywhere between allies between Australia and Vietnam the waters 50 or 60 feet deep between Russia and Alaska the water 60 feet deep the English Channel the deepest point in English channels 150 feet from here to that back wall I mean it’s not like we look at the ocean say wow it’s deep you know it’s blue it must be deep now there’s a lot of real shallow parts so I think by just having larger ice caps during the LaFell flood and after the flood there would be lower ocean levels connecting all the continents the Kangaroos had probably a couple hundred years to walk or migrate to Australia and it just happened as the ice was melting back in the water’s rising they ended up trapped that’s a much more logical explanation than to say kangaroos came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago he said he wants to replace a coherent logical story evolution is not coherent nor logical there’s no evidence for it whatsoever based on millions of pieces of evidence I would like to see the best evidence anybody has just show me the best one anybody knows of for evolution bring that up during Q&A; please level of honesty I yes I think if somebody uses information that’s been proven wrong years ago they’re liars Ernst Haeckel said that the embryo growing in the mother has gill slits that was proven wrong in 1870 for anybody that knows their biology knows that embryos do not have gill slits so don’t tell people they do they’re lying to tell them they do symbiosis can’t evolve well you can dream about that depends on I guess how intense of a level of symbiosis you want evolutions our religion inferences and conclusions drawn from fossils again fossils don’t count Answers in Genesis I am good friends with Ken Ham I love his ministry I sell his books I linked his site he doesn’t like me for some reason that’s fine the NA he said I use arguments that are dishonest for instance Darwin’s deathbed conversion I have never used that I defy anybody to show me anytime in my seminar where I’ve used that the Answers in Genesis is correct that argument should not be used his wife darwin’s wife apparently made up the whole story about him converting on his deathbed the story is not true and I don’t use that as far as Huxley and his moral so let me show you what Huxley said since I get accused all the time of hang on that’s Huxley said and now it is correct that I had the wrong Huxley I said Thomas Huxley it was actually his grandson grandson Julian Huxley said I suppose the reason why we left at the Origin of Species was that the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores he said that on a television interview Julian Huxley the head of UNESCO he said the reason we like this evolution theory is because it interfered with our sexual mores we don’t want God telling us thou shalt not commit adultery professor ruse Michael ruse University of Guelph said evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science evolution is promulgated as an ideology a secular religion a full-fledged alternative to Christianity and with meaning and morality I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex Christian but I must admit then this is but one complaint and mr. Gacy’s but wanted one of many to make it the illiterate are absolutely right evolution is a religion this was true of evolution in the beginning and it’s true of evolution still today Arthur Keith who wrote the foreword to Darwin’s 100 year anniversary book anniversary publication said evolution is unproved and unprovable we believe it because the only alternative is special creation and that is unthinkable professor Louis manure said evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups nothing in the progress of science it is useless Malcolm Muggeridge said I’m convinced the theory of evolution will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future evolution is a dying religion and all religions die hard I mean when they pit with their burn people at the stake for daring to suggest the earth was not the center of the solar system and as evolution slowly dies in our culture you’re gonna see real vehement attacks I mean people get fired from universities like this for daring to question evolution it’s a dying religion folks you ought to get off the bandwagon okay evolution scientists go about claiming evolution is a fact of life a great con man the story they are telling is the greatest hoax ever and explaining evolution we do not have one iota a fact Fred Hoyle famous astronomer from Europe so the only way life could have come into existence is because some super intelligence haven’t created it well we could talk for hours on this one let me get back to where we were if we got few seconds left here okay let’s see and get to where we were all evidence is proven wrong I stick by my guns there are no beneficial mutations but it looks to me like he wants it both ways here he wants to say seven generations of inbreeding will wipe out the fair variability and then turns it around and says there’s not enough time to get all these variations we have I think he’s walking out of both sides of his mouth there oh I cover let’s see I did not get into some levels of some other some other examples of lies in the textbooks that are used to support the evolution theory how much time textbooks tell the kids that the horse evolve from a four toad horse okay this biology book admits this much included much repeated gradual evolution of the modern horse has not held up to close examination fifty years ago Gigi Simpson a very famous brand named evolutionist said the evolution of the horse family was unintentionally falsified it’s been proven for 50 years the horse story that’s in your textbooks is not true but they’re still teaching it Simpson said the uniform continuous transformation of the horse series basically did never happen in nature but they say they have evidence this is one of the best evidence is used for evolution Darwin considered this the best piece of evidence for his theory he said the embryo growing into human his gills this textbook says the presence of fish like structures and embryos of different species shows that these animals have evolved from fish and share the basic pattern of fish development they want you to think that’s a gills like a fish that’s simply a live folks that’s been proven wrong 128 years ago those are not gills those little folds of skin develop into bones in the ear and glands in the throat they never have anything to do with breathing I’ve seen people that have five or six chins and they can’t breathe through any of them but to top one okay this is simply a lie hey go read Darwin’s book the year after it came out when I was translated to German and Haeckel said wow what a great theory this gets rid of God if only we had some evidence for this theory and Ernst Haeckel an embryology professor at the University of Jena in Germany lied he took a drawing of a dog in a human and he faked he lied he changed him he made him look alike here are the actual drawings these are his fake drawings he changed all sorts of things to make him look alike Haeckel made giant charts of his fake drawings and traveled all over Germany and held seminars on why everybody should believe in evolution actually here are Heinkels drawings compared to actual photographs taken a couple years ago he lied my point is this is still being used in textbooks today as evidence for evolution I care I think some other people care to get the lies out of our books [Applause] my point is if you have some evidence for evolution then show me but don’t lie to the kids don’t tell them the embryo officer if you can keep it in line please okay I don’t want to have to you waste it my waste my time I will be glad to take questions okay but grow up a little bit wait your turn okay this is simply a lie but it’s used in textbooks all over the world it was proven wrong in 1874 here it is in a 94 textbook here another 94 textbook here Tim Berra still teaching it Ken Miller still teaching it in a 1998 textbook I could talk for hours I debated Ken Miller is a tooth or 98 textbook used in Pensacola Florida still teaching the same line this one shows says they suggest evolution from a common ancestor because of the presence of gills this is simply not true here’s a 2001 textbook used for junior high saying that similarities provide evidence that these three animals evolved from a common ancestor now look that’s not true they don’t provide such evidence but the books teach this over and over and over it’s in books I’ve been to 30 countries in all 49 states it’s in books all over the world folks they’re teaching the same thing they’re saying it’s not a human yet it’s a human at conception every doctor knows that they teach it doesn’t have gill slits this is baloney so if you have evidence for evolution show me but don’t lie to these kids come on we can go for hours and hours on lies in the textbook all I want is very simple get the lies out of the books then the books will be fine there’s a lot of good science in the books we’re not against science but we’re against supporting a lousy theory with false ideas that’s all let’s just teach the truth teach science to the kids and I think you’ll find evolution I’ll have to slowly slip through the cracks and that’s what they’re really worried about thank you so much [Applause] [Applause] okay we have a question answer time now and dr. Trevor is going to receive the first question he’s gonna have about two minutes we’re not gonna hold him real tight to that but we’re about two minutes to answer the question so the finished finished responding or if yours fine sooner that’s fine and then dr. ovens now an opportunity to comment on that and then we’ll go back and forth and for approximately a half hour for the question and answer period so I hope your question gets in but obviously we couldn’t get all the questions there must be a hundred questions there so all right I’m gonna get this microphone our first question will be for dr. Travis dr. Cheevers how would you explain fossilized clams on top of Mount Everest oh I see okay now it’s working question is how would I explain fossilized plants on Mount Everest and assuming there are fossilized plants on Mount Everest I wouldn’t have any great difficulty what’s that what are those clamps what do I say yeah what did I say it’s clams we’re talking about okay so that we’re all on the same page the question has to do with fossilized clams not plants on Mount Everest and I say assuming that such exists then I’d have to understand the geological history of the mountain if you’re a recent creationist it all happens 6,000 years ago and everything else is a lie then mountains haven’t changed an awful lot except for this enormous scouring of water that took place in this deluge unless you believe in other fantasy that the water was hidden away inside and popped out or another fantasy of dr. Hogan’s that it all came in a meteor with water until it was shown that that would be vaporized it’s well known that mounties rise through the tectonic forces that are generated by tectonic plates so I’ll just switch it I don’t know mine ever has never been there but I have spent a lot of time in Jamaica and it is well known that the mountain in Jamaica which is 7600 feet was came up from the ocean on my own property that’s about 2,000 feet up not on a mountainside you can find limestone which of course is is being generated by living creatures in coral reefs and within the limestone you can find clams and other kinds of creatures and in some cases you can find ones that don’t exist now in fact if you study the whole structure of the area I live in you see repeated areas of limestone just as you would expect if the earth was rising and as it first comes above the water you’ve got these coral reefs forming and then as it continues to rise as coral reefs are both water they dry out and become limestone okay here’s a public school textbook saying climbers reaching the top of Mount Everest plant their victory flags over the remains of animals that once lived in the sea it’s a simple fact that the top three thousand feet of Mount Everest is indeed full of sedimentary rock loaded with sea shells here’s an article from the paper last year two years ago paleontologists whatever his name is here rests on a giant fossil Easter found in Peru more than 500 giant fossil Easter’s were found two miles above sea level some of which are 11 and a half feet wide and 661 pounds well interesting these oysters are in the closed position petrified clams in the closed position are found all over the world including the top Mount Everest now when a clam dies it opens you can walk along the beach and find a billion seashells you hardly ever find a matched pair and you don’t find them closed if they’re dead they open the muscle relaxants it’s just a natural response so I think the best explanation of petrified clams and sometimes they’re found up to ten feet thick solid petrified clams jammed in there closed and petrified to me it’s not a problem the flood would have underwater to what are called turbidity currents mudslides under water move incredibly fast there was one turbidity current that cut the transatlantic cable years ago they said we’ve had to move 70 miles an hour underwater the mud flow I think during the flood in the days of Noah you would get incredible turbidity currents that would bury beds of clams and when they wake up dead they can’t open and so they end up getting petrified and then the Bible says in Psalm 104 the mountains arose the valley sink down and the petrified clams on top my nervous are absolutely no problem for my worldview next question is for Kent Hovind dr. Kent Holden please explain the assumptions in carbon-14 dating I have about so who knows five or six or seven thousand slides in my presentation so it really helped if asked the questions in the same order that I have the same in the answers you know carbon dating is based on quite a few obvious assumptions I’ll give you a quick analogy I cover this for an hour on video number seven if you want to get to a good detail if I ask you to fill a barrel with water but I had drilled holes in the barrel while you’re filling it it’s leaking at some point you’re gonna reach a stage called equilibrium you can’t fill it past that point unless you speed up the intake or cut down the outgo the atmosphere is receiving carbon-14 it’s actually being manufactured by radiation striking nitrogen and it’s turning it into carbon-14 which is a radioactive isotope unstable last 5730 years according to most scientists well at some point the Earth’s atmosphere would have to reach equilibrium if if you just created a brand new planet Earth stuck it out there who forgot it spinning around the Sun Willard Libby did quite a bit of study on this he invented carbon dating and they said it would take about 30,000 years for the atmosphere to reach equilibrium in other words it’s created being created and being destroyed simultaneously so within thirty thousand years the atmosphere would equalize then Willard Libby said well we know the earth is millions years old mistake number one therefore we can ignore the equilibrium problem mistake number two first atmosphere has still not reached equilibrium radiocarbon is forming twenty eight to thirty seven percent faster than it’s decaying carbon dating is an excellent proof the earth is less than thirty thousand years old probably much less than thirty thousand years old when you go to date animals to test their age with carbon dating you get really wild numbers I don’t have time to go through all the other assumptions based on like the rate of burn etc but I could just give you a few examples showing you that it doesn’t work living mollusk shells carbon dated 2300 years old freshly calcio carbonated thirteen hundred years old shells from living snails carbon dated twenty seven thousand years old this guy said if a carbon date supports our theories who put it in the main text if it does not entirely contradict and we put it in a footnote if it’s completely out of date we just drop it here’s those guys no matter how useful it is the radiocarbon method is still not capable of yielding accurate reliable results there are gross discrepancies their chronology is uneven in relative and the accepted dates are actually selected dates though blessed thing is nothing but 13th century alchemy it all depends upon which funny paper you read here’s one part of a mammoth 29,000 years old another parts 44,000 same animal that’s a slow birth where we could talk here a long time geologic column ok the lower leg of a mammoth dated 15,000 years old the skin was 21,000 it just doesn’t work I’m sorry it doesn’t work thank you [Applause] dr. triggers yes I’ll just simply urge you we’re interested in the latest set of lies from a liar for Jesus go to WWE arjan’s org and that’ll give you references also to the literature that he’s very selectively and in some cases grossly inaccurately referring to I don’t have any more to say about that [Applause] question for dr. triggers as a scientist myself I would like to hear evolutions explanation for trees that stick vertically up through many cemetery layers that evolution says were deposited over millions of years but I’m honest that’s all I got to say I don’t know the phenomena he’s referring to all right I do understand the phenomena and I’m honest - and I resent being called a liar tonight I’d like you to be specific if you have another lie give me one at a time and I’ll handle when you say no one has found a single beneficial mutation you’re a liar when you say someone with a beneficial mutation [Applause] we will get back to that if time permits I would like to beneficial mutation the textbooks will teach the kids that the layers of strata are different ages this is taught uniformly all over the world that the layers are different ages and yet all over the world in Germany France British Isles Nova Scotia California and several eastern states petrified trees are found in the vertical position running through multiple rock layers Yellowstone has 27 consecutive layers of these trees at specimen ridge standing trees in the petrified petrified trees in the standing position running through multiple rock layers is proof positive the layers are not millions of years different in age in central Alabama there’s a large coal field right there you can talk to dr. McDonald who’s an a geologist who works there in that coal field and he will show you dozens of petrified trees that were found standing up running through multiple rock layers the kids have been taught for years that the Blue Creek and the Mary leaf formation are different ages and yet when you put all the fossils together you get sample abcdefg you can prove positively those layers formed quickly petrified trees 30 feet tall found in Cookeville Tennessee standing up joggins Nova Scotia is famous for its petrified trees in the vertical position they’re called poly strata fossils why students are taught why people are allowed to teach that each of those rock strata are a different age I don’t know but they are not it is not common sense sometimes the trees are upside down running through many rock layers they are not little rock layers are not different ages but the whole theory of evolution rests on the assumption that the geologic column is accurate and that was proven that was developed by Charles Lyell and others back in the 1830s way before there ever was a carbon dating argon dating a rubidium strontium bading or any other thing else okay okay next [Applause] next question is for dr. Hoeven the e-beam on this is a bird-like dinosaur that supposedly had feathers how do you discount this as traditional transitional proof for evolution from reptiles to birds okay the question the dinosaurs become Birds Bible says God made the foul on day five he made the reptiles on day six evolution theory is exactly the opposite reptiles came first and then birds this guy says scientists or a lot of dinosaurs are alive as Birds it’s absurd 99 and National or USA Today published an article about the missing link was discovered National Geographic the missing link breaking news we found the proof revolution had a big article about it in November 99 two months later oops it was a fraud somebody some guy in China made this thing and sold it to the Americans for a lot of money proven wrong we could go out spend a long time on this one if you’d like on this dinosaurs that birds the descendants of dinosaurs all you got to do is add a few feathers and say man it go ahead it won’t hurt too much give it a try okay there are millions of differences Helen fiducia is hardly one of the world’s experts on birds he believes in evolution strongly UNC Chapel Hill he said paleontologists tried to turn archeopteryx into an Earthbound feathered dinosaur but it’s not it’s a bird it’s a perching bird Archaeopteryx had claws on its wings and they say that’s a missing link we don’t have time to cover all this today but there’s an awful lot of evidence that the one you mentioned here I think I have stuff on that one too I have most of the things in here are cap tricks and none of these can be missing links fully formed birds are found in rock layers dated by the evolutionists at a hundred thirty million years old how could they evolved from dinosaurs dinosaurs lived and died up according to their theory 65 million years ago 140 million year old birds found much older than Archaeopteryx fossil remains of a bird 140 to 170 million years old so it could not possibly be a descendant fiducia says I’m sorry T Oh times 96 model says there are plenty of other reasons to refute the dinosaur bird connection says fiducia how do you derive birds from heavy earthbound bipedal reptile that has a deep body a heavy balancing tail in foreshortened limbs he said biophysically it’s impossible lungs are totally different modern birds are found in layers lower than and with the dinosaurs scales and feathers attached differently to the body they come from different genes on the chromosomes birds have a four chambered heart most reptiles have three Birds Lea calcium covered egg reptiles lay generally a leather egg there simply is no fossil evidence of how a reptile change to a bird now if you want to believe that you just enjoy yourself but that’s a religion keep it out of our schools please question for dr. Hogan the 24-hour day is based on the Earth’s rotation Earth’s orbit around the Sun soaked in the first couple of days be 24 hours if the Sun the Moon were created until the fourth day good question I think the Bible says that God is light and it says he made light first and our day starts at midnight when the sun’s not even out one spin of the earth is a day on earth in relation to anything you could have a day you could have the earth spinning in relation to anything you know it’s bad we happen to start at midnight like I said so later in Exodus chapter 20 God told his people that I want you to honor the Sabbath because in six days the Lord made heaven and earth and same thing in Exodus 31 here we have clear examples where God lumped all six days together as if they’re the same the Sun wasn’t there till day three our day for I understand but there was light before that and the earth apparently was spinning before that in relation to that light that would be a real minor question or problem compared to the evolutionist problem that we all came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago in my opinion [Applause] I’ll say two things the the the answer that question is too trivial to go into it’s a good question we measure a day a certain way days didn’t appear in that form till four days into this story the story is a metaphor it’s not a hey they were really 24 hours and you can take it to the bank if that kind of argumentation satisfies you that oh well there was light and somehow the earth was spinning even before it was created to spin fine I don’t have anything to say about it I just want to go back one step I do not believe that mr. Hogan knows what a mutation is because he’s now shifted his criterion now a mutation is something that’s that suddenly and one jump takes you from this species to a brand new species that’s why he’s got to have individuals with two mutations matching because that’s the only way mr. Hoban can imagine 2news species arriving just like everything has to happen at an instant in creation just like the whole parent illogical record has to be wrought in a few months of this horrendous flood he’s describing so his only image his blinkered image of how you can get a new species from another species is a single event in a single generation I mean there are a whole bunch of biology courses which I’m happy to know your children will be taking that looks explain to him explain to him how that works I think that was my response to him this make this the last question for dr. Cheevers yes sir explain the evolution of a feather explained the evolution of a feather from the scales of reptiles how am I supposed to explain the evolution of a feather well it is uncertain how feathers evolved or what their initial function was it was initially believed they evolved for flight it later seemed more logical and there was again some fossil evidence that was consistent with it that they may have evolved for thermoregulation and later achieved a role in flight they’re believed to have evolved from scales of a reptile and I’m not a bird anatomist and I’ve not spent my life concerning myself with every single detail of every single creature including in particular the details as to how feathers evolved all right this biology book says very clearly bird feathers evolved from the same scales that protected the reptiles so well bird feathers are unbelievably complex feathers and scales are both made of the protein keratin but that proves a common design engineer not a common ancestor battleships and forks are both made from iron it doesn’t prove one evolve from the tin can that proves iron is a good substance with which to make things okay and the designer used keratin to create all kinds of things 1996 Journal of evolutionary biology vol 9 page 140 at the morphological level feathers are traditionally considered homologous with reptilian scales however in development morpho Jesus gene structure protein shape and sequence and filament formation and structure feathers are different clearly feathers provide a unique and outstanding example of evolutionary novelty now the guy still believes in evolution we’ll try to fix that but he says they are unique they did not evolve from scales it’s just they’re just too different if somebody wants to believe they did that’s perfectly fine and if you go back and listen to the tape you’ll see several times he said well we believe it might have happened or you know could have happened or something like that that’s fine I don’t care if what you believe it’s not science it’s a religion face it admit it it’s a religion if you want to believe that great you teach that it you’re at your expense to your kids don’t teach that at my expense to my kids that’s all thank you [Applause] it’s turn over here this will be our last question for dr. Hoeven if creationists believe the universe was created 6,000 years ago how do you explain the galaxies and stars which are millions and billions of light years away I don’t know that I can do that in the time allotted I will certainly try we cannot tell the distance to stars beyond a few light years I’ll show you the problems with that in a hurry here if wish we had more time I cover this in great detail in video number seven let me get up to or if you watch it on my website to a long answer to this Stephen Hawking said stars are so far away all we see is a pinpoint of light the biggest telescope looking at the closest star all you see is a dot to measure the distance to something you cannot touch you have to use trigonometry if there are two angles and a side or two sides in an angle earth is 8,000 miles in diameter which is basically a zero compared to star distance so what they’ve done to enlarge the triangle is they look at the star in January and look at it in June and now you have a 93 million mile radius on a circle which is 8 light minutes so a 16 light minute diameter a year has 525,000 minutes in it so if you had to survey or 16 inches apart looking at a dot eight and a third miles away that’s the ratio you have using Earth’s orbit as the base looking at one light year that makes an angle of point zero one seven degrees to measure one hundred light years is clearly impossible that’s like two people in Chicago cola on my roof 16 inches apart looking at a dot in Chicago 15 billion years is clearly impossible - we just simply can’t measure those distances I don’t they’ve stars probably are billions of light years away I don’t know nobody does this textbook says you can measure 100 light years well I doubt it but I’ll give one hundred so we don’t know the distance to the stars they could be billions of light years we also have proven pretty conclusively here in the last 20 years that the speed of light is not a constant at Harvard University and 99 they slowed light down to 38 miles an hour the next year they slowed it down to one mile an hour the next year they brought it to a dead stop this was done at Harvard Smithsonian and Cambridge that’s what science is something repeatable observable not hypothetical at Princeton meanwhile they speeded light up to 300 times the speed of light the speed of light has decreased so rapidly over time that experimental error cannot explain it astronomer Barry Satterfield from Australia said here’s the chart showing the decline in the speed like we had time we talked about all that the speed of light was apparently exceeded by a factor of as much as a hundred everything’s documented at the bottom of the screen and on my website the speed of light was 10 billion times faster at time zero according to Big Bang Theory it’s petabyte had to be faster the speed of light may have changed over history study says a shocking possibility is the speed of light might have might change in time during the life of the universe now 2002 august sydney australia said the speed of the light speed of light may not be a constant the speed of speed limit of the cosmos is being questioned there’s a new book out called faster than the speed of light thirdly I think that God created made it made a mature creation Adam and Eve were full-grown the trees were full-grown it has to be that way you don’t want to make two babies and put them in the Garden of Eden and give him a package of seeds and say here plant these quick it had to be mature a light year is the distance it’s not a time so if a star is ten billion light years away that’s a distance that’s not a time it’s 10 billion light years that’s a distance on how they miss that the speed of light is not proven to be consistent so I would start distance of anything to do with the age of the universe God could have made it you know yesterday if he wanted I think he made a 6,000 years ago everything mature fully for I’m fully functioning that’s my answer and how they say that on America no no that’s my final answer [Applause] there is no doubt that the speed of light may have changed over cosmological time and it would be very difficult for us with our present understanding as I understand it and I’m strictly an outsider on physics and cosmology to prove or disprove whether the speed of light has changed over long long periods of time that it has been increased the speed in Princeton is an outright fabrication you can go to this person and get him to give you the references and you can chase them down and see if anybody else in this state or anywhere else that has actual knowledge of the scientific work believes that someone has speeded up the speed of light by what was it a factor 300 you said I’ll show you the reference so 300 I think you said this will be that’s what the article said let’s see all right well in here New York Times May 30th year 2000 so take it up with mayor or what’s-his-name from New York this is the article just as it appeared on June 4th of year 2000 okay well young Wang yeah find find a scientific journal and see if the conclusion is is described in there you know I had one thought before I came over here and this is the end of the question period so this will be my last thought I figured this man probably uses a computer he probably uses light bulbs he probably watches the television he probably makes use of the enormous technological innovations that have come from the scrupulous careful detail and now centuries-long application of scientific reasoning to the universe around us if you followed his style of approach broadly not just we want to teach our children this and that but took his style of approach towards reality his assertions about the veracity of the work of other people and so on you wouldn’t come up with a calculator you wouldn’t come up with a ruler you wouldn’t come up with nothing like the computer that he’s blessed to be able to use thank you dr. Trevor’s had an opportunity of some closing comments dr. Hovind some closing comments please I certainly enjoy science I have nothing against science but the idea that we wouldn’t have computers if it weren’t for evolution is simply ludicrous evolution almost don’t use up man no I use that my time here nearly all of the branches of science were started by creationists it’s the evolutionists that came along and like a leech began to suck the blood out of a valuable science over the last 20 years nearly all branches of science were started by creationists not by evolutionists I defy you to find me one scientific advancement because of the theory of evolution the evolution theory is useless it’s not only useless it’s dangerous we teach the kids they’re an animal and then wonder why did he act like an animal well duh there are these are names of scientists who were believers in creation so don’t tell me that we wouldn’t have a computer if it hadn’t been for evolution the guy who invented like Maxwell for instance or Lord Kelvin and all these guys all these guys were the shoulders that the Giants were standing are the the people are standing on the shoulders of giants these are the giants they were standing on to create a computer somebody had to develop the transistor and had to develop the circuitry and printed circuitry and these guys were creationists these guys were believers in the Bible they thought God created the world and it’s it’s man’s duty to try to see how God did it and why he did it I love science and it isn’t it’s a useless theory it doesn’t help us get a computer or go to the moon there is no value to it whatsoever and I resent the implication that scientists all scientists believe in evolution because they don’t the guy who invented the MRI is a creationist like me there are thousands of scientists who are creationist many are indeed afraid of losing their job because there’s a real prejudice against those who don’t believe who don’t bow down to the sacred cow I’m sorry here you find that right one here I’ll give you some examples here very quickly since these are closing comments here about some scientists who were wrong and in passed here lots of funny examples of that dr. Robert Gentry did incredible research on the disposal of radioactive wastes at Oakridge laboratories in Knoxville Tennessee he was one of the world’s experts on Granite’s he published in all the major magazines saying look the Granite’s have these little tiny halos in a radial polonium haloes indicating this rock was never hot it forms too quickly you can get his book or his website two halos calm if you want to get more on their rogered to har it was a science teacher in high school in Washington he was told he could not tell his students about errors in the textbooks by hangout current science journals you can’t tell the kids there’s a lie in your textbook Kevin Haley biology teacher Central Oregon Community College lost his job for simply exposing errors in the textbooks because that’s a threat to the evolutionist Baylor University fired William demske because he advocated there might be an intelligent designer that caused all this forest Mims was a science writer for many years for many magazines he was denied a job at Scientific American simply because he was a creationist Rob Levesque in Minnesota was reassigned just because he expressed doubt in Darwin’s theory taht teacher Dan Clark in Indiana was told by his superintendent that he could not introduce creationism to his class just simply by showing current science journal say look folks it doesn’t work this is this is the facts Dean Kenyon at San Francisco State University was the poster boy for evolutionist for years he wrote all kinds of books about evolution and then he made the tragic mistake of getting converted and they fired him he sued and got his job back and now he’s teaching again but only because he was a tenured professor if a professor stood up 20 years ago in the Soviet Union and said kids I don’t think capital I don’t think communism works capitalism is a better system he’d lose his job or his life we got the same censorship in America for somebody who dares to question the holy sacred cow of evolution the students at Texas Tech University offered dr. Denny $900 if he would debate me four weeks ago when I was there he’s the one who refuses to give recommendation letters to his students he wouldn’t take 900 dollars to debate me for two hours and yet he’ll stand in front of his class where he’s got the obvious academic and psychological advantage but he won’t take on a creationist who can answer his questions look I fly all over the world I’m willing I do this at my expense the churches sometimes take an offering I want to help you students need to see both sides of this issue now why so many professors are refused refuse are reluctant to debate this I don’t know I really appreciate this gentleman coming to do this I think he’s wrong and I’m gonna get him converted but I’m glad he did it Oh I would say I would say these are my closing comments I’m sorry God created this world in six days whether you like it or not and you’re gonna stand before him and be judged by him one of these days whether you like it or not God created it he owns it he makes the rules and we’re gonna stand before him you better get ready for that day [Applause] we gave dr. oven a few extra minutes and I would like to do the same for dr. Traverse [Applause] [Music] can you not hear me I just I’m just gonna comment make two comments on what he said and then make a third comment maybe one is this fantasy he has that there are a huge number of scientists out there who are scared to come out of a closet that admit their creationist because they’re going to lose their jobs one of the best protected institutions in this country is tenure which says that after you’ve taught for six or eight years and you’re accepted for tenure at a university it’s extremely hard to be kicked out of the university there’s only one tenured Rutgers professor who’s been D tenured and that was for practicing slavery alright not for espousing creationist thoughts so forget that fantasy the second thing that I don’t want to waste my time illustrating here is that he makes the assertion let’s just call it a falsehood to protect his feelings that there’s not a single useful thing that’s come out of evolutionary biology and that’s just lack of knowledge on his part or pure bigotry or some unique combination of the two that he’s found comfortable to live with when you are when you are treated for a disease in a hospital when you are given antibiotics indeed when you are told to take them for 10 days for reasons he’s given when biological control agents are used to control pests of plant species and even animal species that we depend upon all of that work is based on evolutionary logic and a number of those studies and advances have been made evolutionist so it’s just another one of these let’s make the wild assertion and see whether we can get it by this audience the final thing I’ll say is that I’ve noticed a lettuce coil at disappointing level of emotional and intellectual development in some parts of the audience in which it seems that all you need to do to get straight on whether this universe evolved or did not is to cry for the name of Jesus and to take and go back and read the Bible as if every single word was printed in stone and bypass but even here even here there is biblical scholarship that that this kind of organism is not going to give you and I’ll just give you one example from Ecclesiastes remember that I created her in the days of thy youth when thy strength Weymouth not and you say I shall have no use for them why then where’s them in there well the original word was that creator the original word was temple prostitute and the statement was remembered now thy temple prostitute because that was the way you gave tithes that was one of the ways you gave tithes in church back then when your strength leaned it’s not and you have not then when you did not say I have no use for anything for the temple prostitutes so if you want to take a kind of infantile approach toward scripture where you’re not even willing to consider problems of translation and real meaning well [Applause] hey boots both speakers have got an outstanding job listen for both of them [Applause] we hope you’ve enjoyed watching this debate on the topic of creation evolution this is not just an academic subject if the creation story is right and God created this world then we better do what God says and if you’re watching this tape and you’re not a Christian God loves you he wants you to come to heaven but he hates your sin he hates my sin he won’t tolerate any sin in heaven since he created the world and he designed it and he owns it he makes the rules and his rule is no sin in heaven well we’re all sinners which means we all deserve to go to hell but Jesus Christ got himself in the flesh died on the cross to pay for your sins and my sins and February 9th 1969 I prayed and said Lord I’m a sinner would you please forgive me and save me and on that day I got born again into God’s family you can be born again all you need to do is admit you’re a sinner admit that you deserve to go to hell call upon Jesus Christ to forgive you and save you he’s the only one who can and he wants to so badly if you’ll just ask him if you’re not sure you’re going to heaven ask the Lord to save you right now you could just pray a simple prayer like I prayed back in 1969 I just said Lord I’m a sinner would you please forgive me and save me right now if you do that today will be your spiritual birthday the Bible says you must be born again in John chapter 3 in John chapter 1 it says you get born again you become a son of God by receiving him when you receive Jesus Christ you receive his gift that he died on the cross for you and you received that for your sins that’s the day you get born into God’s family you become God’s child we have lots of material in our ministry designed to help strengthen your faith in the Word of God and hope you grow as a Christian if you’d like to call or write our office we’d be glad to send you a catalog you can get on our website and get lots of information if you’d like to schedule a debate I’d be honored to come just get my itinerary off my website and find out when I will be in your area and I’d be glad to come speak at a college speak at a university speak at a debate represent the creation side against as many professors as want to get together we’ll take on ten at a time that doesn’t matter you see God’s right and evolution is wrong it’s pretty simple thank you so much please don’t hesitate to call us if we can be any help do you want to know more about how to combat the cutlass theory of evolution creation science evangelism offers four great tools that help strengthen the faith of believers and win the lost to Christ after 15 years of teaching high school science dr. Hogan began creation science evangelism in 1989 we are a ministry that is dedicated to providing tools which will help you combat the evolution philosophy that is destroying the faith of millions every year the first tool creation science offers is their powerful life-changing video series over the last 12 years well over a million videotapes of dr. Hovind seminar have circled the globe they are reaping a harvest of souls for the kingdom of Christ as well as helping restore the faith of many thousands confused by the evolution propaganda to which they’ve been subjected these videos are available in English Russian French Spanish Japanese and sign language the age of the earth first of the seven part series teaches that God created the universe about 6,000 years ago and six literal days but this be true can it be scientifically proven that the earth is not millions of years old this tape gives solid scientific evidence that the earth is young and that the Bible is scientifically accurate how did the environment of the original creation differ from ours today and how would this allow men to live over 900 years can Christians have a good XY for the existence of dinosaurs but some dinosaurs still be alive today these and many more questions are covered in the second and third part of the series evolution has permeated public school textbooks with false and fraudulent information this video exposes nearly 30 lies commonly found in textbooks every public school student teacher and school board member needs to watch part 4 of this series find out if you have been lied to in your textbooks discover the terrible difference evolutionary beliefs have made in the past as well as in recent history in our video number 5 dictators throughout time use their evolution based philosophies to rationalize their brutal actions learn how evolution propaganda is being used today to prepare people for the new world order this is just a taste of all the information the 17 hour seminar series has to offer also available are college courses and expand on the seminars in great detail for those who can handle a more confrontational atmosphere our debate series is just for you I said now mr. Patterson if you think the tailbone is a vestigial hi Kent Hovind will pay to have yours removed dr. Hogan has debated a wide range of atheists and evolutionists all over the country you’re sure to find these twelve debates very exciting these would be perfect to present to that scientifically minded person who likes to argue their point our topical series includes exciting topics like why evolution is stupid public school presentation children’s video about dinosaurs the Bible and health Leviathan the fire-breathing dragon and many more creation science also offers a variety of visuals like the longevity chart which presents the entire lineage of Adam to Joseph as given in Genesis it’s exciting to see exactly how many generations were alive at the same time hundreds of books on a variety of subjects videos on incredible creatures that defy evolution t-shirts fossils and more make creation science evangelism the one-stop shopping center for your creation material needs our two websites ww2 Dino calm and WWI Nisour Adventureland comm provide our second tool for evangelism dr. Dino calm is packed with lots of information from charts and graphs to articles and frequently asked questions this is also where you will find more information on all of the products CSE has to offer dinosaur Adventureland calm is great for the kids they can play lots of fun games and see unusual rides and activities located a dinosaur adventure land in Pensacola Florida thousands visit our sites regularly to gain insight into God’s creation the third tool available to you is the live seminars conducted by dr. Hovind and his son Eric since 1989 dr. Hoeven has held seminars and debates and hundreds of churches schools and universities and 49 states and 30 foreign countries his fast paced Illustrated seminars cover diverse topics such as evidence for a young earth how long Adam lived dinosaurs living with man where races came from radiometric dating and much more our fourth tool is the new exciting dinosaur Adventureland many thousands have come from all across America to visit our Museum creation bookstore Science Center and theme park where God gets the glory for science are unusual swings rides and activities each have a science lesson as well as a spiritual lesson captivate everyone from age 4 to 94 to order material find out how to schedule a seminar at your church or get more information about dinosaur Adventureland write to us at creation science evangelism 29 Cummings Road Pensacola Florida 3 to 503 or call us at 85 oh four seven nine three four six six or toll-free in the US eight seven seven four seven nine three four six six

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